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Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:20 pm
by Dave Keenan
cmloegcmluin wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:35 am @Dave Keenan I think something on this thread must have gotten messed up. Is this one of those dreaded instances of accidentally clicking the Edit button for a post instead of the Reply button?
Indeed it was! Sorry. I accidentally replaced the entire contents of your post with my reply. The very hazard of having moderator powers that I warned you about so recently.

Thank goodness for Nir Sofer and his MZCacheViewer utility! Using it, I was able to find previous versions of the page in my browser cache, copy them elsewhere and open them to view them, until I found one with your post intact. Then I edited your post again, to recreate the original above.

So now I put my response here, which was:

Yes to all of those. Except you should replace "The Herculean & Olympian levels are highly recommended" with "The Promethean level is not recommended".
In any case, the fourth thing I was going to add is that it could let you know whether the default value for the symbol it's suggesting is an exact match, or if not, how many cents it is off by.
An excellent idea.

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:49 pm
by cmloegcmluin
No big deal! Okay, I’ll do that work soon.

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:09 am
by tromboneandrew
Just one thought for a potential online Sagittal calculator: I think it's a good idea (if feasible) for such a calculator to be able to handle not just dyad intervals, but larger sets of notes as well. The issue is that it's not uncommon at all for the same chord transposed around will end up with distinctly different-looking spellings. The HEJI calculator on Plainsound is awesome, but also doesn't really offer a way to easily 'calculate' this effect.

I made a Dorico file in Mixed Sagittal for my own reference (as a kind of encyclopedia of triads), and due to some interest uploaded this video playback to Youtube. The idea is that each chord is spelled 3 ways, transposed so that each chord tone is represented as middle C. Thus, anyone who understands how Sagittal deals with 'sharps' and 'flats' can get help from this reference to transpose these chords around - at least to the extent of the other basic Pythagorean scale tones. 12EDO also has this effect where the same chord can be spelled in visually different ways depending on transposition, but this effect is heightened in extended just intonation. For example, the three 6:7:11 triad spellings look visually quite different from each other.

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:39 am
by cmloegcmluin
Thank you for the suggestion @tromboneandrew. That has bothered me about the HEJI calculator, too. The current plan is indeed for the calculator to support changing which nominal is 1/1 for a set of pitches, whether a chord or scale. A goal is for it to eventually calculate for you the 1/1 for the set which results in the least required sharps and flats.

Thank you for sharing your triad reference. Is it weird that I actually find it quite beautiful as it is?

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:58 am
by tromboneandrew
cmloegcmluin wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:39 am Thank you for sharing your triad reference. Is it weird that I actually find it quite beautiful as it is?
Thanks! That wasn't intentional, but I get that vibe, too. The progression from very simple to increasingly complex chords has a kind of 'minimalist' beauty that is pretty neat.

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:56 am
by cmloegcmluin
(attachment last edited: May 2nd, 2020)

Alright, I’ve updated the JI calculator spreadsheet to use the new Olympian diacritics (linked above). While I was at it I also updated it to:
  1. include pure notation
  2. include the Unicode characters so if you have the Bravura font installed you can see the symbols (pending the Olympian diacritics getting implemented in SMuFL)
  3. report the error between your pitch and the default pitch of suggested symbols
  4. report the count of fifths each pitch is away from 1/1
  5. hide the guts of the calculator on other tabs to clean up the UI
  6. patch what I suspect was a bug where the calculator would suggest :)\ \!::#: instead of simply :)|\ \: *
I made a few other tweaks here and there too, such as switching the names of each level to be based on their precision instead of the Greek proper names for their maximum symbol set.

These changes are not a strict win. Perhaps to some people the pure version, the unicode, or the accuracy measurements are just clutter. So please let me know what you think or if there any revisions you would like to see made. Otherwise I hope it works for you and you enjoy notating some JI in Sagittal!

* You can test this for yourself by entering C as your 1/1, -4 as your count of 3's, and 1 as your count of 5's. I found that you can fix the problem by increasing the upper bound of symbol suggestion from 68.08453082 to 68.8, but I was not sure if that might cause other problems, so instead I simply added a layer at the end where if it ever suggests :)\ \!::#: it swaps it out for :)|\ \: (and the equivalent problems for flat, double sharp, and double flat).

Re: JI Notation Spreadsheet

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 9:56 am
by cmloegcmluin
The conversation around the issue with bullet 6 turned into a larger conversation which I broke out here: 140th mina

The part from the first post that I moved over there which is relevant as a response to my last post here:
Dave Keenan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:32 pmWow! Thanks for all that.